UPDATE: Local restaurant review site, The Urban Spoon, took down a slew of LGBTQ written comments about this business yesterday. I complained to the site managers and was told the comments “probably” contained Terms of Service violations, but no specifics (even on my own removed comment). I asked The Urban Spoon specifically about the relevance of branding practices and to comment on targeting LGBTQ comments. No response.
The “approval” rating for this business sunk from over 70% to near 40% in the span of about 12 hours yesterday. It was hovering near 45% last night and has spiked back up to 70% this morning. As you can tell from the comments below, the donutters are aware of the criticism. Backlash is also hitting other bloggers covering this topic
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Hey gang, a new donut shop opened up in the Strip District. It is called Peace, Love and Little Donuts and the owners have trademarked the phrase “Feed Your Inner Hippie” Sounds cute, eh?
Well, owner Ron Razete has also claimed a place in the blogosphere with the phrase “As I Was Saying” where he shares his anger, vitriole and bitterness.
This crowd will not rest until Homosexuality is mainstream; until the Second Amendment is done away with; until abortion on demand is as common and accepted as going to the dentist; until sexual images and strip clubs line our streets and suburbs; until government education is started in the womb; until disagreement with their political party is “hate speech” and becomes a crime; until they pass the Fairness Doctrine and rid the county of Conservative talk radio; until they transfer our sovriegnty to the UN, etc. etc. etc.
When you capitalize Homosexuality, you know you've put created a very big divide between US and THEM. Even abortion didn't get that shout out.
There's more.
… so here are just a few of the major issues I have with the “tannest” President of the United States in history.
First, I find it unsettling and overwhelmingly racist to make a big deal about the color of a man's skin. It is either a reason to vote for him or not. A reason to be “happy” or not. A reason to expect big things from him or not. But I'm confused… isn't President Obama half white? Why that makes him a Black President and not a White President is what gets me. I am sick of seeing a microphone stuck in everyone's face asking about the “historic” day when Americans elected a Black President.
As I was reading through his pages, I didn't find myself angy — just sad. He pours so much of himself into the writing and seems to live such an empty, self-righteous life. So judgmental of everyone — Ledcat would kill me if I wrote about her various shortcomings and asked you to pray for her to be a better wife.
Who can write this with a straight face?
People are wicked and without the Holy Spirit to express Himself through our lives, I'm sure I would be saying the same things as these sad souls.
I don't have a lot of expectations of my donutter, but some sort of general belief in the decency of humanity would probably be on the list.
This all came to light on a local LGBT email list. Folks are pissed and perplexed. How do you go from “People are wicked and without the Holy Spirit” to a hippie/dippie sales spin? It is that sort of willingness to do whatever it takes in the marketplace to earn a living that really undermines the credibility of wingnuts. And it almost worked. I would have seen the name and assumed it might be cool. But someone noticed the anti-gay comment and shared it …
Lesbians are rumoring to be staging a kiss-in, a kiss-out, a make-out and all sorts of things. Most of them probably just won't got to the donut shop in the strip district.
That's probably the best idea. I mean, people are entitled to a personal opinion. But we don't have to finance it with pink dollars.
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thank you posting this.
it seems kinda hypocritical as it is to proclaim “peace and love” to sell transfat treats. but then to denounce and condemn the very group you want to make money off of is downright backstabbing.
i won't be spending any money there.
Really, it is a strange business model … hippie + Christian, but maybe that's just my bias. To be fair, there's a hypocrisy on the part of the LGBTQ community in that I'm sure we support many anti-gay businesses or businesses helmed by individuals with public support for anti-gay positions.
Still, I felt it worth blogging about given that it stirred up some interest on the Queer List. One project our producers at Sister Shout are working on is promoting shopping at local LGBTQ businesses. I'm more comfortable lifting up businesses that pro-gay. It would be great if the Pride Direct could make a resurgence at some point. That would be a great project for the new gay business group to tackle.
Thanks for your input.
You should be ashamed of yourself for proclaiming that you are right and this business owner is wrong.
Your own statement “So judgmental of everyone” points directly back at you. Instead of trying to bring understanding you attack.
This blog seems quite egotistical. Why not place yourself in someone else's shoes and look past your self?
“then to denounce and condemn the very group you want to make money off of”
how so? was the “very group” your group? what bias are you bringing when you post? what are your presuppositions?
Do you believe yourself to be entitled to anything? If so, what? If not, than why assume backstabbing?
Yeah, Sue. Why can't you just hate yourself like you're supposed to? How small minded can you be?
– Maria in Pgh
Yeah, Maria, well I've been trying to channel my inner self-loathing closet case, but I keep thinking about peace, love and … so it is tough. This whole episode has me craving donut holes so I'm definitely going to have to hit up a gay-friendly bakery this weekend.
This has been going around on a Lawrenceville email list too. I won't be spending my money there.
The “pink dollar?” Really, now? For a group of people that claim to be about unity and alliance, isn't that one of the most separatist and divisive things said yet?
It appears that the cry against this business owner is “love and accept everyone… that is, everyone that WE love and accept. Conservative religious people don't count. Love everyone–except them.”
If people boycotted a liberal business, or more specifically, a gay owned business, you would create an outcry of bigoted hatred boycotting and rally against that boycott, wouldn't you? Why are your actions any different? It is two sets of people with two different opinions on politics, faith, and morals.
Your agenda appears to be “cast this man, his family, and his business down to promote REAL love and peace” but you are doing exactly to him what you claim he has done to you. Therefore, your claims of being loving and tolerant only extend as far as your personal favoritism, which makes you no better than the people you despise.
Who will win the war of opinion?
The difference is that gay people will never have the power to deprive Mr. Wingnut of his right to a happy marriage, employment, health care, housing, family, children, or just about anything else. Mr. Wingnut and his allies, on the other hand, specifically want to continue and enhance legal discrimination against a group of people. He will never be subjected to that. He can legally marry whoever he wants, adopt kids, never have to worry about being fired for being a Christian, and he gets fantastic tax breaks. It's called the tyranny of the majority and it's happened throughout history.
Well said
This story has been picked up on three national gay blogs.
We should all buy donuts at the bakery Sue mentioned and eat them on the sidewalk in front of this place. The ultimate doughtest. Get it? Protest/doughtest.
The anti-PLD sites are moving up in the Google searches. So when folks search for your business, they are going to find a lot of opinions about your business tactics, sir, not your delusional value set. Google don't lie. And it don't go away.
I think the gays gotcha, regardless of your Urban Spoon crap, littledonutmaker.
Good thing! Cause all of the negative reviews are once again removed from the URBAN SPOON SITE>.
I cannot believe that the peoples voice has been silenced once again..Ridiculous! This will NOT end here..
Delusional value set?
I find your values to be delusional and only looking to appease yourself.
Many are claiming what is not theirs and stealing another's livelihood.
This is madness! What is the point in ruining a business like this? Does it make you sleep better at night knowing that you have “accomplished” something?
GET OVER YOURSELF! The actions of the LBGT community ARE NOT LOVING. They are hateful and tearing others down. I know that the LBGT community has reason to feel the way it does, however their own actions show them no better than those who have hurt them.
Where is reason? Why can't common ground be found? Could it be that neither side is willing to NOT RETALIATE? I would go as far as saying the LBGT community is becoming more and more Jingoists in their actions.
even the possibility of examining yourself is excluded in your sarcasm.
Would you even consider your own actions as “wrong”? Or are you putting a foot down and not even thinking at all?
Maybe a better term would be “embarrassed”, you should be embarrassed of your choice of actions and the way you have handled this whole situation. What is controlling your actions? Fear? Hate? Anger? Hurt? Pride? Power? Control?
If your actions and responses come from any of those…there might be something wrong with them
WOW! Such harsh words..I think a statement from the owner might be the appropriate thing at this point..Seems to me that if there is a mis understanding, why not set the record straight and defend your case?? All I see are words to defend him coming from those standing in front of him..Why not do the right thing and explain his stance??
If the business is viable, it will withstand some negative feedback from the gay community. Don't Christians buy donuts? If all the haters that pray for us come to your shop, you'll be fine. If not, like all small business owners, you took a risk. Ask the local Republican party if anyone is owed a job or a livelihood.
We are claiming the right to be treated with dignity and respect by business owners that want our money.
The owner has made a lot of statements. He is anti-homosexual and anti-liberal, but he wants our money. I don't think a donation of donuts to the Shepherd Wellness Center is going to help.
Here's my problem with this:
I'm a bisexual person, and also a Christian. There are such negative stereotypes on both Christians and the LGBTQ communities. It hurts me whenever I see people perpetuating any type of negative stereotype because it works against people who are trying to demonstrate positive qualities and striving to gain the respect of people who fear them.
This business owner has perpetuated a negative stereotype of Christians and has attacked another facet of my identity and yes–it hurts and I don't approve or condone.
Yet I also look at my fellow LGBTQ community and I'm also ashamed of all of you. We are not creating alliance and combating negative stereotypes against ourselves with this behavior. We are reinforcing straight and/or conservative people's viewpoints that we are evil, combative, have a superior agenda, and separatist. This is NOT the way to show the rest of the world who we are.
If you want straight people to respect you, love you, and get over their negative fears and phobias, tearing them down and slandering them all over the internet and spewing back the same hatred he gave you…. is not the answer. I'm not saying anyone must frequent this business, that's a personal choice.
But it's the retaliation, the hateful words, and the attempt to tear this man down that is so detrimental to the image we are giving to people who are against us. We should treat others with the love and understanding that we want to be granted even if that isn't the treatment we receive from others. Perhaps we should be showing him that there is no reason to hate us by our actions instead of reinforcing his reasons for negativity. Consider that?
It's fine if you don't want to frequent his business, but we could also frequent it and demonstrate love, kindness, respect, and a positive presence.
But at the bare minimum we could cut the crap and not portray ourselves as high strung, equally hateful bitches.
Just saying….
Folks keep using the word retaliation. Where do you get that? No one is throwing dung at the doughnut shop. They are expressing opinions. That is not retaliation.
Remember, a lot of the lunch counters being boycotted during the Civil Rights era were “small businesses.” I'm sure the same arguments were thrown out to the white folks who were sympathetic, implying they were depriving the lunch counter owners of a chance to earn a living.
Peace Love and Donuts on YouTube
Now that's a good marketing strategy. Health. Maybe this guy is getting it.
I think a donation of doughnuts to the Shepherd Wellness Center weekly dinner would be a good PR step. He can't think feeding people who are HIV positive is a bad thing, can he?
Main Entry: re·tal·i·ate
Pronunciation: ri-ˈta-lē-ˌāt
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): re·tal·i·at·ed; re·tal·i·at·ing
Etymology: Late Latin retaliatus, past participle of retaliare, from Latin re- + talio legal retaliation
Date: 1611
transitive verb : to repay (as an injury) in kind
intransitive verb : to return like for like; especially : to get revenge
Where are people getting that from?
TO RETALIATE to another opinions, to stage possible kiss-ins, to promote such negative response across the internet (just look at what is being done at the Urban Spoon!) People who have never been to the shop are voting negatively for it and posting negative review repetitively. It sure looks like retaliation.
To bring up the Civil Rights era is a poor defense too. The multitude of issues involved in the movement far surpass that of this issue. Included suffrage and admittance to certain schools, the civil rights movement was an outcry of a much greater separation and hatred.
Also look at the extremist groups that came out of the civil rights movement: black power groups, which further posed a double standard and ended up segregating in another way. Was that the intended outcome?
Martin Luther King Jr.:
All progress is precarious, and the solution of one problem brings us face to face with another problem.
An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity.
At the center of non-violence stands the principle of love.
Every man must decide whether he will walk in the light of creative altruism or in the darkness of destructive selfishness.
NOW YOU CAN fit many of King's words into your own ideas, but take a step back and look at the whole picture if you will.
A statement from the owner would probably be appropriate.
Why not do the right thing and educate oneself in both stances? Invest personally in the issue and don't set your stance in concrete (by that I mean continue to learn about the issues involved).
As as to explaining his stance, I cannot explain it accurately because I am not him, but I can say that what creates that stance involves many issues and changes in America. Could how one was raised also play a role in the stances? In addition, the lgbt communities own actions often never leave room for a case, pressing in closer and closer in a forceful way automatically makes people defensive.
Has the owner ever stated that “I don't want (pink, gay, etc.) money” explicitly?
Whoa. You might want to look up over-reaction in the dictionary.
The broader concerns of humanity,?
These are doughnuts. I think people can have opinions about doughnuts without invoking Martin Luther King, Jr.
You have opinions about gay people and you haven't tasted one of us, right?
Doughnuts, man. Just go make the doughnuts.
WHAT in the world was all that ??? I am reading many of these comments and cannot make heads or tails of the babbling…Sheesh…
From Been There Before's comments:
“Folks keep using the word retaliation. Where do you get that? No one is throwing dung at the doughnut shop. They are expressing opinions. That is not retaliation.
Remember, a lot of the lunch counters being boycotted during the Civil Rights era were “small businesses.” I'm sure the same arguments were thrown out to the white folks who were sympathetic, implying they were depriving the lunch counter owners of a chance to earn a living.”
“Civil Rights” was brought up in Been There Before's comment. So was the idea of retaliation.
The issue is not even doughnuts. To even say the issue is doughnuts shows that you are missing the point or still only think of the issue as doughnuts. If the issue truly were only doughnuts than why would people be up in arms about anything? The issue is treatment of people and how opinions are influencing and inciting actions, for BOTH parties.
Expanding on people's perspective is important because one's own perspective is bound to miss something. The value of doing this is also worth while in just about any context, it is not something to turn on and off/ pick and choose when to think.
My concern is that people make up their own definitions for just about everything today. What means one thing to me will mean another to you. This decay of standardization and universals leads to all of these mis-understandings.
Digging deeper and actually using reason could/might help in ones own personal decision. Unfortunately, many people choose not to think and not to examine perspectives today.
The issue is one of how people are to be treated: and this is apart of ones own values and understandings of “the broader concerns of humanity”.
Understand?
Exactly, and have you even tried? Babbling (an assumption, presupposition, and perspective that you personally bring) would be incorrect…sheesh…
Tune in to SisterShOUT tonight on Out Online TV where we'll be talking doughnuts, kiss ins (I think a trigger point for the owner and frequent commenter) and the value of buying gay.
We'll also be talking about the Roman Polanski extradition, updating you on statewide LGBT legislation and intervieing Independent Mayoral candidate Dok Harris. Oh, and the boobie video. Can't miss that. It will save lives.
Feel free to post your comments here about the show or email the show itself sistershout@outonline.com.
See you at 5 PM on http://sistershout.outonline.com
Dok Harris' doughnut business was a pleasant surprise. That was a great twist on this whole story. Here's the website.
http://www.rsuperfoods.com/products_superdonut.php
Maybe we can move on, pending a final comment or two from Mr. Razete of course. We have some bigger doughnuts to fry, folks.
Dear Sue,
The frequent commenter you mention (myself) is not the owner of the business. However I have been watching your blog and local reactions.
It appears that you have too much personal pride (and I emphasize “personal”-not LGHBQ pride) to even respond to my urges to consider reason and thinking carefully.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste. This mash of “purposes/causes” you have thrown together: good causes along with tearing down those that do not share your values is such a great way to have thoughtless followers. By thoughtless I mean those that accept what you say because there is some good and some truth in it. Mix in some good with the bad and the ends justify the means, right?
Using scare tactics (“trigger points”) as you have mentioned (kiss ins) is childish and really shows a base way of dealing with situations.
I am not really triggered by kiss ins as you write. I do think it is an abuse of others fears and only leads to more hatred of what you value so much.
Does that make sense to you?
Frankly, you haven't made sense to me since you began commenting. Wasted or not, my mind just doesn't follow your logic or reasoning. I'm also moving on to other topics.
I'd like to borrow some sentiments expressed by another blogger in her comment section and the 500+ member Queer Events list. This is serious. This impacts my family, sir, and our ability to particupate fully and equally in society. Why? Because the position he espouses publicly contributes to a political climate that oppresses LGBTQ persons. He has the right to hold and espoues those positions, certainly. But with that right comes the need to deal with the natural consequences. You may not think he's a bigot, but I do and I'm not going to back down because of your interpretation of my free speech.
I read the blog before he took it down. Every post. I read about the gold cross and the miraculous roommate situation. I read about the family dynamics, the trips to see the daughter, the put downs of his wife's character, the appreciation of her “smoking hotness”, the kettle corn, the hot tub, the car troubles, and so forth. I am not responding to a few lines, but the whole thing.
I stand by my original statements. You are welcome to ananlyze my character, motivation or intelligence however you choose. I don't kowtow to oppressive tactics from powerful people in this region so I'm certainly not intimidated by a small-minded, word twisting bigot defending another bigot. Continue to put me down if you like, but I think you are adding fuel to the fire and wasting your time.
It is “people like you” (yes, I went there) who are terrified of gay people that could possibly find a casual reference to a kiss-in as a scare tactic. That is along the lines of Diane Gramley's repeated threats of men invading women's dressing rooms and employers being forced to hire gay people. Unfortunately, it works and threatens us so you are damn right that I'm going to continue take personal pride in speaking out against such hatred, ignorance and bigotry.
I don't appreciate you referencing my readers and podcast viewers as “thoughtless followers” but they can speak for themselves or make the wise choice to ignore your comments. There are many thoughtful, well-informed people who use blogs, even this small one, to learn about issues and make their own decision how to respond to the facts and opinions I present. God knows there are plenty of folks who don't read it so clearly your attempts to hammering in your rhetoric proves that you care what the thoughtless followers think.
If you see non-violent direct action such as the terrifying possibility of lesbians kissing in public, you fit right in with the leadership of the City. Honestly, I'm more concerned that this ideology resulted in students being physically assaulted than in you insulting me.
I suggest you move on to other forums, sir. You have spewed enough bigotry here.